Value investing – When to Sell or Hold?

A good discussion on when to sell in another blog.

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12:30 pm
April 10, 2012

matthew

Member
posts 13
9
Yes, I did this on Aeropostale. Approximately a 32% gain I got on that bad boy.
Reasons I sold, it had trouble getting past $21-$22, and then Barclay's raised there price target to $25 so more investors bought and price went up a bit. I took this chance and sold it, and it has now went back down after today -5%. Keep in mind that I sold it early basically because my intrinsic value was around $23 and I figured i'd rather sell now than risk more just for a small additional gain.

If I had not sold it then I would have been stopped out as during the price consilidation period I put in a stop loss @ $21
10:55 am
April 10, 2012

Jae Jun

Admin
posts 1408
8
do any of you sell after a big fast run up even though it is below intrinsic value?
6:29 am
April 1, 2012

nell

Member
posts 88
7
Some reasons to sell..


1. intrinsic value < price -> no margin of safety
2. business quality goes south, management issues etc.
3. better opportunity


One good reason to buy more is when market tanks but intrinsic value of your specific company keeps growing..

Best wishes,
Nell
10:58 am
March 31, 2012

BugMan

New Member
posts 2
6
I'm fairly new to this, and I, too, see selling as the hardest part.

One thing i've thought of that makes it easier is compare your current holdings to what else is out there. If are holding onto a good company, and you figure it has the potential to go up 12% per year, but you see other companies out there that have the potential to go up 25% per year, then sell your current stock and buy the other ones. It's not that the old company isn't good — it is — it's just that there are better deals out there.
8:03 am
February 27, 2012

gstyle

Member
posts 4
5
I am fairly new to value investing so I find it good to know other have had similar thoughts to my own!
2:17 am
February 25, 2012

Jae Jun

Admin
posts 1408
4
selling is defnitely harder than buying.
One of my weak points as well. If I had a partner, I'd find someone who was better at selling than buying. It would be a great combination.

But to sell, you would have to re value a company regularly.
If there isn't much upside to intrinsic value, then I'm willing to sell at 10% below intrinsic value rather than hanging on.
Companies like GRVY, I am happy to hold even if I'm up 100%.
8:17 pm
February 22, 2012

jalleninvest
Coronado, CA

Member
posts 22
3
Post edited 8:20 pm – February 22, 2012 by jalleninvest
G.raham came up with the 50% or two years towards the end of his life, in that interview that is bandied around the internet some. I am not at all sure that he practiced that in the Graham Newman closed end fund he ran. In one case, he did not, and that was GEICO which they bought half of in 1947 or 1948. They ended up having to distribute the shares to the shareholders of the fund, and it increased 54,000 per cent or something like that. Many became multimillionaires, quite a feat back then.
Walter Schloss, who died the past weekend at age 95, talked about selling. According to him that was the hardest part of this business, trying to figure out when to sell. He didn't like paying short term income tax rates and tried to hold stocks for a number of years. He commented ruefully several times about buying at $30, selling at $50 and watching the stock go to $200, etc. He recommended a new company to Graham that had wonderful prospects. Graham turned it down, saying it wasn't their kind of deal. It was Xerox, of course, but Schloss said Graham would have sold it at a double anyway and missed out on the big increase.

If it was easy, everybody would do it!
9:23 am
February 21, 2012

Graeme
Austin, Texas

Member
posts 162
2
Yeah, this is always a fun question.

For me what I do is I break up my holdings into different categories. For example, I have holdings that I bought at a good (not great) but good price, but they pay me dividends, and if they keep acting as they have for years, they should be increasing my dividends every year. I get a bit of return on the stock price increase, but a great return over many years with the dividends reinvesting. So my sell thesis on these guys is pretty firm: as in, I wont easily do it.

But then I have holdings that I would consider a deep value: selling at a deep discount to book value, or below NCAV or in a really beat up industry. These are the shares that I have a target price for: as in, I will sell when they hit that specific price. There is not a whole lot that would change my mind and make me hold on to it longer. And sometimes that target price is 50% above my purchase, 100% or even more.

So you need to judge for yourself whether the business you bought shares in is now fairly priced at it's 50% gain or if it still has room to go.
4:33 am
February 21, 2012

gstyle

Member
posts 4
1
Hi,

I was pondering the concepts of selling a value stock or holding it for longer. I understand that Ben Graham had a strict rule of selling after a 50% increase or after two years, whichever came first.

A stock brought at value brings the 50% gain, but if this stock is in a strong company with good prospects for the future, should it still be sold? At this point, do you make a decision to strictly adhere to Ben Grahams teachings or evolve to be more like Buffett in buying a good company at discount and holding it for a long time?

If the company in question was a 'cigar butt' then selling after its gain seems more obvious than for a value stock in a good company.

Thoughts / comments
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http://www.oldschoolvalue.com/blog/forum/value-investing/value-investing-sell-or-hold/#p4033

The investor with a portfolio of sound stocks should expect their prices to fluctuate

The investor with a portfolio of sound stocks should expect their prices to fluctuate and should

• neither be concerned by sizable declines 
• nor become excited by sizable advances. 

He should always remember that market quotations are there for his convenience,

• either to be taken advantage of or 
• to be ignored. 

He should never 

• buy a stock because it has gone up or 
• sell one because it has gone down. 

He would not be far wrong if this motto read more simply: “Never buy a stock immediately after a substantial rise or sell one immediately after a substantial drop.”

Selling: The Hardest Decision of All

Many investors are able to spot a bargain but have a harder time knowing when to sell.  

• One reason is the difficulty of knowing precisely what an investment is worth.  
• An investor buys with a range of value in mind at a price that provides a considerable margin of safety.  
• As the market price appreciates, however, that safety margin decreases; the potential return diminishes and the downside risk increases.  
• Not knowing the exact value of the investment, it is understandable that an investor cannot be as confident in the sell decision as he or she was in the purchase decision.

To deal with the difficulty of knowing when to sell, some investors create rules for selling based on 

• specific price-to-book value or price-to-earnings multiples.  
• Others have rules based on percentage gain thresholds; once they have made X percent, they sell.  
• Still others set sale price targets at the time of purchase, as if nothing that took place in the interim could influence the decision to sell.  

None of these rules makes good sense.  Indeed, there is only one valid rule for selling:  all investments are for sale at the right price.

Decisions to sell, like decisions to buy, must be based upon underlying business value.  Exactly when to sell or buy depends on the alternative opportunities that are available.

Should you hold for partial or complete value realization, for example?

• It would be foolish to hold out for an extra fraction of a point of gain in a stock selling just below underlying value when the market offers many bargains.  
• By contrast, you would not want to sell a stock at a gain (and pay taxes on it) if it were still significantly undervalued and if there were no better bargains available.

Some investors place stop-loss orders to sell securities at specific prices, usually marginally below their cost.

• If prices rise, the orders are not executed. 
• If the prices decline a bit, presumably on the way to a steeper fall, the stop-loss orders are executed. 

Although this strategy may seem an effective way to limit downside risk, it is, in fact, crazy.  Instead of taking advantage of market dips to increase one's holdings, a user of this technique acts as if the market knows the merits of a particular investment better than he or she does.

Liquidity considerations are also important in the decision to sell.

• For many securities the depth of the market as well as the quoted price is an important consideration.  
• You cannot sell, after all, in the absence of a willing buyer, the likely presence of a buyer must therefore be a factor in the decision to sell.  
• As the president of a small firm specializing in trading illiquid over the counter stocks once told me:  "You have to feed the birdies when they are hungry."

If selling still seems difficult for investors who follow a value-investment philosophy, I offer the following rhetorical questions:  

• If you haven't bought based upon underlying value, how do you decide when to sell?  
• If you are speculating in securities trading above underlying value, when do you take a profit or cut losses?  
• Do you have any guide other than "how they are acting," which is really no guide at all?